I found these of a search engine from old Ghostchild site. I will add more as I find them. Anyone else is welcome to add to this.
Please keep in mind that the ghostchild links for the most part do not work, unless they happen to come in on a search engine cache.
Prairy
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Popes Apology
« on: May 16, 2005, 12:06AM » by Nangala Warinapthi
National Indigenous Human Rights Congress Australia
Po Box 7116 Watson Canberra ACT Australia 2602
Mobile: 0423 964 131 Email: nihrca@yahoo.com.au
Press Release
15th May 2005
Alexander Marcel Andre Sebastian Barker Bailiff is the man who took sixty (60) days to get the Popes Apology to Oceania as the Papal Bull of 1445, that preceded the world being colonised, violated the Spiritual rights of the Peoples of Oceania.
As the Barkers, are criers of the court, from Onibury, Shropshire in England whom the Barkers list’ is named and the Bailiff’s are servers of judgements of the court, from Normandy in France, it is essential to ensure every person in every nation in the world, that has been colonised as a consequence of the Papal Bull of 1445 has their land returned, as it was taken as a proceed and process of crime, market rent is paid from where it was taken, all incomes from the moment it was taken is paid to original owners and all future earnings and compensation is paid.
The Popes Apology to Oceania “at the dawn of the new millennium” ensures as many court orders as there are people will be placed on all lands and assets of all christians and their churches, colonisers and colonies to seize all lands and assets to compensate all colonised Peoples under the proceeds of crime provisions. All Peoples, churches, colonisers and colonies still complying with the Papal Bulls of 1445 will have their actions cease by the United Nations validating United Nations Covenants in all member states of the United Nations and will also ensure the constitutions of all nations are invalidated as they are replaced with United Nations Covenants.
This is essential as the Treaty of Versailles and the Atlantic Charter ensure the Acts of Parliament of a Coloniser no longer apply. The Peoples of India and nations beside India are not the only People set free by Franklin Roosevelt. The United Nations will also ensure every person from every nation in the world can access the judiciary in their language as easily as they access their right to vote in their language. As the last Millennium failed to ensure every one in the world has water, food, shelter and health due to religion and democracy disempowering people, the next millennium will ensure everyone in the world has freedom to make common law in courts to ensure the welfare of the whole of humanity is better.
Contact: His Excellency
Francesco Canolini
Holy See
2 Vancouver Street
Red Hill
Canberra ACT 2603
Telephone: 61+262953876 Fax 61+262953690
Email: popesapology@yahoo.com.au
Lee Anne Nangala Daylight Lacey
Founder NIHRCA
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 11:07PM by Nangala Warinapthi »
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 07:36AM » by Yina Ywittikah
Popes Apology to Oceania
http://www.eniar.org/news/aeeo.txt
http://www.eniar.org/news/pope1.html
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2005, 04:29PM » by Ahniwanika
Excellent Yina, thanks for posting this (I couldn't find it anywhere).
I just got an email from Nangala, asking me to post something I said regarding all of this, as we discussed this quite a bit at ghostchild.com:
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1712
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1740
I'm not entirely sure what she wanted me to post, so I just chose the most powerful thing I said about all this:
Quote
Very powerful words HighPlainsWoman. You are completely right. We've discussed matters of apologies quite a bit here, goodvoicewoman and I both found a couple dozen apologies, from the Pope, the Queen, the Church, the gov of can, and several others.
The Pope's apology, was for the inquisition, and went like... "oh sorry for the inquisition old bean; sorry.... and the Queen apologized for 5 or six different matters all at once. And none of these apologies amounted to anything, in the same way that the recent document written by the man who visted the reservations here, concluding that as far as living standards go, canada, once in the top 10, is now 38th... the thing about that is, WE already knew we were in poverty! so the un asks the government of canada to manage the natives better...
Forgive the bitterness, I'm just not impressed with their effectiveness.
Though I will talk about this in great detail in my part 3 article I haven't started yet, is what all this comes down to... about dissolving all these documents, and there's lots. For starters:
Bull Caetera
The Bull Inter Caetera, March 13, 1456
Papal Bull Dum diversas, 1452 by Nicolas V
Sublimus Dei
The Bull Romanus Pontifex
Bull Aeterni Regis, June 21, 1481
The Bull, Eximiae devotionis, May 3, 1493?
The Bull, Dudum siquidem, September 26, 1493
The Treaty of Tordesillas, June 7, 1494
The Bull Ea Quae, January 24, 1506
The Bull Praecelsae Devotionis, November 3, 1514
.. In addition to all the claims that Columbus received which dictate that he owns all of "the Holy Land" (North and South America. They said it, not me) is that, because the world as it is cannot afford to start that particular cascade effect, in the end, it is up to us to dissolve them, for ourselves, and on our own terms.
As HighPlains said, these people don't get it. They are seperate from us. They are not the people. And what do the people say about these documents?
They say it is time to burn them. So how can we burn them? Do we need "those who are seperate from the people" to fullfill our needs? Do we need their support and will to do what the people have deemed necessary? Do we need them to officially dissolve what we already accept as being invalid?
In other words, it is by our own hands that we remove what does not serve us. It doesn't matter if the Pope is the Pope, he is still human, and has no power or authority over anyone. The same goes for all governments. They are afterall, just men.
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
If anyone's wondering what all those Papal Bulls are, and for related texts, you can find them here:
http://ghostchild.com/politics.htm
(and I just realized that page is kind of messed up, and must go fix it now...)
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http://intercontinentalcry.mahost.org
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 04:36AM » by Yina Ywittikah
Pope offers Aborigines an apology
From AFP
POPE John Paul II offered Australia's Aboriginal and other indigenous peoples of Oceania an apology for past "shameful injustices" of the Roman Catholic Church, in a message posted on the Internet.
The Pontiff wrote that the Church "apologised unreservedly" for the part played by its members "especially where children were forcibly separated from their families".
The apology came in a report by the special Synod on Oceania held in the Vatican in 1998, and follows a papal apology to China last month for the historic wrongs committed by its representatives in that country.
"Aware of the shameful injustices done to indigenous peoples in Oceania, the synod fathers apologised unreservedly for the part played in these by members of the Church, especially where children were forcibly separated from their families," said the document signed by the Pope.
Wrongs done to the indigenous peoples needed to be honestly acknowledged, whether the truth had been suppressed by governments, their agencies or Christian communities, the document said.
The document underlined that the identity and culture of Aboriginal people "are gravely threatened", and said the church would "support the cause of all indigenous peoples who seek a just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights."
It said it would support their aspirations for "a just solution to the complex question of the alienation of their lands".
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt...ies/s427370.htm
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 04:45AM by Yina Ywittikah »
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 05:20PM » by HighPlainsWoman
Well, Okay then.
Does anyone know what they mean by this statement?
Quote
the church would "support the cause of all indigenous peoples who seek a just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights."
I'm trying to figure out what is meant by "just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights. "
HighPlainsWoman
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2005, 09:22AM » by ohstonha
its about time. they are half the reason we got into this mess to begin with.
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iroquoismap1.png (68.43 KB - downloaded 3 times.)
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married to a Mohawk Warrior
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(Read 599 times) [1]
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Pope's Apology?????
GhostChild.com > Selective News
Pages: 1, 2
charlieb
May 16 2005, 03:59 AM
National Indigenous Human Rights Congress Australia
PO Box 7116 Watson Canberra ACT Australia 2602
Mobile: 0423 964 131 Email: nihrca@yahoo.com.au
Press Release
15th May 2005
The Man Who Evoked the Popes Apology in 60 Days.
file attached
Lee Anne Nagala Daylight Lacey
I got the above in an email. There was supposed to be a doc file attached, but, I can't get it to work.
WillowAliento
May 16 2005, 04:41 AM
Sister Nagala Dalight has posted the full text at sister site Jinta Jungu :
here's the link to the board there
http://jintajungu.ghostchild.com/index.php...rdseen.html#new
This is big stuff which might be yet another way to go forward -- I'd be interested to see what everyone thinks of it.
Slainte
Willow
Ahniwanika
May 16 2005, 05:28 PM
hmm? Well I'm not to sure what to make of this, so I'm going to email this person and get some more info...
Ahniwanika
SweetGrass
May 16 2005, 09:34 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmm................don't know about that letter, but
imagine.......
AN APOLOGY FROM THE POPE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S PART IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL ABUSE..........WOW............
Willow, dancingstars...........what a brilliant idea. Maybe Rome can be
added to our mailing list!
WillowAliento
May 17 2005, 01:21 AM
:--> Great idea Sweetgrass --
we should mail the new il papa and also Aust Archbishop George Pell is one of Ratzinger's Right-hand-blokes, so he should surely be spoken to... I'll get Pell's contact, can someone get one for Rome?
Willow
P.S -- meaningful apology idea: Imagine if the church handed all its land back to the People of the Tribes.... I'm dreamin' again.
dansingstars
May 17 2005, 08:03 AM
Hi Sweetgrass and Willow,
Is it possible? How? Who would be able to draft a letter to the Pope. It is a GREAT idea. Can we pull it through?
Can we add this to the list of objectives? I thought the previous Pope did an apology in the NorthWest Territories, correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, my memory cells are not what they used to be. Hey, that is a great idea, did he apologize to the other countries that suffered?
Let's toss some ideas around. Maybe Kanatiio can look at this and see what he thinks. Willow, did the previous Pope ever apologize to your nation? Having support from other clergies is also a good idea. What do you think?
My mind is swirling with ideas and more. I'll wait patiently for your replies. All my relations, dansingstars
WillowAliento
May 17 2005, 12:59 PM
Even if John paul 2 did make an apology in the nth west, if the whole of Canada & Quebec was not part of it, and nothing was done, it is well worth writing to new il papa I reckon... and same here, I think there might have been some kind of whiole of churches apology as part of all our early Sorry day and reconciliation movement -- but again, was there enough action? we need to bring Yina in on talking up this Island.
But yes, lets put it on the objectives -- and I am happy to help put together a draft once we've talked it up some more and got ideas together. the other one of course is Liz as head of the Anglican church, and Liz has made a formal apology to our Native people -- and also one year in her Xmas message got up our Prime Miniature for not doing the same thing-- hubby's and my jaws dropped -- she also refused to shake his hand at some state event... major snub... because he announced he would not say an officil sorry as PM.
But has Liz apologised to your mob, and has her aplogy to our mob been meaningful?
In our letter, do'y reckon we ask for an apology in the form of land free of taxes and state controls, including the mineral rights, and upstream catchment protection, for perpetuity, for the Native people rather than compensation money, or both?
there is much to "talk up" in this idea. but its a goodie.
I look forward to what others may have to say on this...
BTW here's another thought -- are there any sovereign nations where the Native people have control, which could be approached for letters of support via their embassies in Canada or their national government websites if they don't have diplomatic presence in your nation?? I'm thinking perhaps some of the African, Pacific islands and Caribbean nations, India and Asian nations, even Ireland might be worth approaching -- places where people can relate to struggling with colonialism especially.
A sovereign people (which Turtle Islanders are) has the right to ask other sovereign people's to support their cause -- after all, isn't that what the US Canada or Australia do? let me know your thoughts on this -- it worked for people in Sth Africa....is the govt policy in canada any less a form of apartheid?
This is all fermenting rather nicely innit???
Much love
Willow
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 06:04 PM
Well, I have the Pope's email address if I can find it, and let's not forget:
http://ghostchild.com/email_the_world.html
Also, does anyone know what Papal Bull is being referred to here?
It's not the Bull Inter Caetera is it?
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1093
charlieb
May 17 2005, 06:16 PM
Let's not kid ourselves here, an apology from the pope, significant as it may be, is still only the first step in a long process of addressing a legacy of evil. We all know decades of stalling on the issues is still in store.
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 06:16 PM
ok, here's a little more info for people:
(the bull mentioned above is Romanus pontifex
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1101
CHRONOLOGY OF THE PAPAL BULL'S MOVEMENT
*13th Century Crusades Era - King Alfonso X incorporates the Las siete partidas (seven division of laws) into Castilian law, one division explicitly referring to the granting of political and territorial jurisdiction to a monarch by "papal donation."
*January 8, 1455 - The papal bull Romanus Pontifex is issued by Pope Nicolas V to King Alfonso V of Portugal.
*May 4, 1493 - The papal bull Inter Caetera is issued by Pope Alexander VI to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain.
*September 26, 1493 - The papal bull Dudum Siquidem is issued by Pope Alexander VI. Confirms the bull Inter Caetera, and revokes (revocamus) all earlier papal grants to Portugal which might give her a claim to westward lands.
*November 1493 - Indigenous resistance to Inter Caetera begins. The indigenous peoples on the island of Quisqueya ("Hispaniola") valiantly resist the Spanish intrusion. The cacike (chieftain) Caonabo leads a retaliatory military campaign against the thirty-nine Christians left behind by Columbus at La Navidad after atrocities committed by them. All thirty-nine are found dead upon Columbus' return. Later, indigenous Caribbean peoples publically reject the "papal donation" stating the pope had no right to give what was not his to give.
*June 7, 1494 - Spain and Portugal sign Treaty of Tordesillas based on the bull Inter Caetera. The Treaty divides the world in half between the two nations, and is the foundation for subsequent treaties and custom relating to the Americas.
*June 2, 1537 - Pope Paul III issued the Papal Bull Sublimis Deus, which supposedly "freed the Indians," and is regarded as "the most important papal pronouncement on the human condition of the Indians" (Gutirrez, "Las Casas," 1993). However, as history unequivocally shows, Sublimis Deus is purely a theoretical act since there would be no need for an accounting of those declared to be "extinct," nor for the tens of millions who had been eliminated by the end of the 16th century.
*June 19, 1538 - Pope Paul III revoked Sublimis Deus at the urging of Spanish Emperor Charles V. However, there is controversy as to whether the Pope actually revoked Sublimis Deus or the brief Pastorale Officium of May 29, 1537. Revoked or not, it should be made clear that Sublimis Deus did not revoke Inter Caetera (Boyle, 1998, 1999).
*1542 - The "New Laws" that had prohibited Indian slavery and banned the encomienda (slavery system) were revoked.
*1823 - In the Johnson v. McIntosh case, U.S. Chief Justice John Marshall blatantly inserts language of "discovery" based on the bull Inter Caetera into the decision.
*1831 - In Cherokee v. Georgia, Justice Marshall rules that the Cherokee Nation was not a "foreign state" as defined in the U.S. Constitution, and therefore they could not sue the state of Georgia in the Supreme Court from usurping the gold on their land.
*1992 - A formal movement to revoke the bull Inter Caetera is initiated by the Indigenous Law Institute based in the United States.
*1993 - At the Parliament of the World's Religions in Chicago, Illinois, sixty indigenous delegates draft a Declaration of Vision calling for the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera.
*October 12, 1997 - An annual papal bulls burning commenced in Honolulu, Hawai'i calling international attention to the papal bulls issue.
*October 12, 1998 - Over 50 indigenous and human rights advocates gather in Honolulu to demand the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera, and called for it to be revoked by the year 2,000, or by the beginning of the "new millennium".
*November 28, 1998 - Pope John Paul II called "Christianity's 2,000 anniversary a year of mercy," as reported by AP, saying "the church will seek forgiveness," "atonement," and that he "wants the church to enter the third millennium with a clear conscience."
*February 19, 1999 - The United Church of Christ, Hawai'i Conference, passes a resolution which resolves that: "President Paul Sherry on behalf of the United Church of Christ urges and calls upon people of conscience in the Roman Catholic hierarchy and in other organized religions to persuade Pope John Paul II to revoke the Papal Bulls Dum Diversas of 1452 [Romanus Pontifex of 1455] and Inter Caetera of 1493 by the year 2,000."
*May 1999 - At the international Hague Appeal for Peace conference, Tony Castanha (Carib/Boricua) and Steve Newcomb (Shawnee/Lenape) directly address and call for the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera on both "Interfaith" and "Root Causes of War/Culture of Peace" panel presentations.
*October 2000 - Indigenous Peoples' Delegation (nine delegates) converge on Italy and the Vatican advocating for the revocation of Inter Caetera. Delegates meet with official from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.
*2001 - Pontifical Historical Commission studies the issue for the first time and rules that "Inter Caetera is no longer juridically valid." Kosmos Indigena founded. Continues to call on the Vatican to revoke Inter Caetera if it is no longer juridically valid.
*October 2003 - Seventh annual papal bulls burning observed in Honolulu, Hawai`i, as well as other locations around the world. Call is made to return to Rome in October 2005.
Read the webpage version of the "Appeal to the Vatican andPope John Paul II" at: http://www.uctp.org - Click on "Hawai`i."
from: http://www.turtle-tracks-for-kids.org/Edit...apal%20Bull.htm
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 09:15 PM
True CharlieB, in fact we may have to wait for another 500 years, 5000 years...
I think what's most important in anything to with this sort of thing is that people find hope, and common ground to work on something that does have relevance to what we all need to see happen, in creating a world worthy of our children.
Finding such common ground gives us practice towards living an inter-continental unity. That's exactly what the whole anti Iraq war movement has done.
So long as we know that, and that we don't have 10,000 years to resolve 10,000 issues (not considering the last 500 of which only a few matters of death and assimilation have sort of been resolved)... and in so doing opening ourselves to know and practice action that is relevant to and in mutual benefit of the whole, everything's going to be alright.
Ahniwanika
Moon
May 18 2005, 01:00 PM
Thank you for the link, I signed the Petition. Colonisation equals Enfrancisement, which equals slavery to Corporate Fiction, which equals livestock management..........The new Math does not get any easier to understand then that.
I think it is going to take alot pressure from all sources to move the new pope to remove this Jurisdictional Fraud. It is what gave direction to the WarriorKings to take instead of share, to molest the unworthy, and find as many unworthy to justify their need for cruelty.
It is my wish that this too be aired and dealt with in Peace, for any more bloodshead with not bring back the Millions of Sentients' around the world who sacrificed so the Coporate Machine of the Churches and the WarriorKings could feed on us so well.
Think now, where is this higher road? Where are the words of Correction and Understanding towards the Peace?
George Bush, do you see what we have been building? Tony Blair, do you see the end? To remove the blood lust and the abuse of authority is the goal, but how should we deal with you for no weapon's of mass distruction? How can you justify beyond the need to be in Iraq to oil the machine? You are killing our world with our addiction to your dependence on our need to move faster....by your Fiction Jurisdiction.
SweetGrass
May 18 2005, 01:44 PM
Maybe the Pope and the Queen should receive our package with a
formal letter.
Kanatiio is great at drafting up these letters and so is Willow. If we all
put our heads togeather.......
Thanks for the info Ahni.
They are often slow to reply and sometimes don't....but, at least they
will know we are still alive, not going away, are still taking a stand for
justice, and are forthright in attempting to correspond with them!!!!
Maybe I could mail them our folder with the poster and info of the
walk, dancingstars....
SweetGrass
May 18 2005, 02:45 PM
Here is just a few ideas.....I doubt that it will invoke an apology in 60 days, but you never know a "miracle" just might happen...
Ahni.....could you post a mailing address and an email address on here for the Pope and the Queen.
Kanatiio said writing the Pope would be fun...so, I take that as a "yes" for drafting up a letter for us!!!
Willow, you should do the same for your country and each of you could reference the other's country.
Moon a letter from you and Ka Nee Ka Neet would be cool...if you could get one from him.
Everyone else should write up a short letter stating why an apology is important to them and how their lives have been affected from the past and how this apology would make a difference for the future. Try to be personal, but like Moon said without blood.
I will copy them and send them with Kanatiio's letter. Willow could do the same.
The letters, if you are ok with it, should be posted here along with Kanatiio's and Willow's....so there is no denying they were sent!!!! They would all be cc to the gov't here, to other countries, church officials, media, etc. dancingstars and company could spread the word on her walk.
This is one more peaceful action....they all add up. A call for unity is working together...that always makes a difference with institutions.
SHALL WE?????
I will soon post the email address of the members of parliament that I am lobbying for dancingstars walk under Victory Walk for Justice. If all of you could email letters of support, it will make a big difference for the outcome of this walk. Officials and media in other countries are interested and taking notice.......our government and media seem to only take notice under pressure..........surprise...surpise...right. The more emails they get...the better........
mikwhec nia:wen thanks
SweetGrass
HighPlainsWoman
May 18 2005, 03:26 PM
My personal opinion is that an apology is not enough from the fiction governments leaders.
An apology is a start. However, what good is an apology if the problems are not corrected? They can not correct the past, but they can make certain these kinds of misbehaviors , atrocities and genocides do not continue on into the future.
I don't think these leaders "get it." They live a life far removed from the common peoples. Unless the problems are addressed and corrected by The Pope and the Holy Roman Empire, The British Queen and parliament, U.S.A. President Bush and the Senate, then any previous apology is a lie.
Until the people mentioned above, live with the people, and suffer what the people suffer....suffer what horrors the people have to suffer...day in and day out just to survive, I don't know if they will "get it." The blood of innocents is on their hands.
HighPlainsWoman
Niawen
May 18 2005, 07:09 PM
Hopefully the attention (media or otherwise) brought to the truth and cause will get people to understand and see. We may not see the fictions' apologizing for it; however it would be a good oportunity to educate people who do not know, since most are victims of organized religion mafias.
ShiningHope
Niawen
Ahniwanika
May 18 2005, 08:32 PM
OK, here's a few email addresses:
the Pope
benedictxvi@vatican.va
The Queen
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page3776.asp
Privy Council of UK
pcosecretariat@pco.x.gsi.gov.uk
judicial.committee@pco.x.gsi.gov.uk
Privy Council of CA
info@pco-bcp.gc.ca
Should also coordinate with/contact:
National Catholic Reporter
ncr_editor@natcath.com
For support, involvement:
Kevin Annett
kevinannett@yahoo.ca
Campaign against the Inter Caetera
castanha@hawaii.edu
http://bullsburning.itgo.com/Index.htm
Roberto Mucaro Borrero, President
United Confederation of Taino People
PO Box 4515
New York, NY 10163
Tel: (212)604-4186
Email: uctp_ny@hotmail.com
Noam Chomsky
chomsky@mit.edu
and as mentioned already: http://ghostchild.com/email_the_world.html
* the top of the international government emails page, are many world leaders
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Very powerful words HighPlainsWoman. You are completely right. We've discussed matters of apologies quite a bit here, goodvoicewoman and I both found a couple dozen apologies, from the Pope, the Queen, the Church, the gov of can, and several others.
The Pope's apology, was for the inquisition, and went like... "oh sorry for the inquisition old bean; sorry.... and the Queen apoligized for 5 or six different matters all at once. And none of these apologies amounted to anything, in the same way that the recent document written by the man who visted the reservations here, concluding that as far as living standards go, canada, once in the top 10, is now 38th... the thing about that is, WE already knew we were in poverty! so the un asks the government of canada to manage the natives better...
Forgive the bitterness, I'm just not impressed with their effectiveness.
Though I will talk about this in great detail in my part 3 article I haven't started yet, is what all this comes down to... about dissolving all these documents, and there's lots. For starters:
Bull Inter Caetera
The Bull Inter Caetera, March 13, 1456
Papal Bull Dum diversas, 1452 by Nicolas V
Sublimus Dei
The Bull Romanus Pontifex
Bull Aeterni Regis, June 21, 1481
The Bull, Eximiae devotionis, May 3, 1493?
The Bull, Dudum siquidem, September 26, 1493
The Treaty of Tordesillas, June 7, 1494
The Bull Ea Quae, January 24, 1506
The Bull Praecelsae Devotionis, November 3, 1514
.. In addition to all the claims that Columbus received which dictate that he owns all of "the Holy Land" (North and South America. They said it, not me)
is that, because the world as it is cannot afford to start that particular cascade effect, in the end, it is up to us to dissolve them, for ourselves, and on our own terms.
As HighPlains said, these people don't get it. They are seperate from us. They are not the people. And what do the people say about these documents?
They say it is time to burn them. So how can we burn them? Do we need "those who are seperate from the people" to fullfill our needs? Do we need their support and will to do what the people have deemed necessary? Do we need them to officially dissolve what we already accept as being invalid?
In other words, it is by our own hands that we remove what does not serve us. It doesn't matter if the Pope is the Pope, he is still human, and has no power or authority over anyone. The same goes for all governments. They are afterall, just men.
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
WillowAliento
May 18 2005, 11:41 PM
QUOTE (Ahniwanika @ May 18 2005, 08:32 PM)
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
I do believe Ahniwanika has here given us a good core to consider for our letters -- put his finger on exactly what needs to change -- the Church etc need to come into alignment with Good Ways of Being Human, and also make practical amends for the mistakes they have made and the effects of their various false rulings.
This is a great idea to get people thinking and active across our islands -- a starting place after which lots of things become possible -- for one thing we encourage people to view these "Leaders" as just people -- really no more wise than themselves -- and that puts an end to somes unquestioning obedience which becomes collusion.
I'll talk to a few folk here abt the shape of a draft, and it would be good to get as much input from the wise folk here as possible too -- the idea of everything being posted here is also a good one.
Are we going to send the letters both electronically and also snail-mail? (thankyou Ahni for all those addresses!)
another idea -- The Snail mail ones could be physically delivered in a colourful NVA fashion to the reps of the Queen and Pope etc in our respective "nations" -- the Gov generals and the Archbishop (ours pell is of course in Rome but he still has an office here) then the media gets the message straight away that these letters have been delivered, if we actually timed it so it was simultaneous is all the "nations" involved that would be really powerful and bigger media (which reaches Mr Average and Mrs Apathetic).
In the USA the nearest thing to a Queens rep would be the British Embassy I guess.
If we could get a small group in Britain to also hand deliver to the palace and wow -- send someone to Italy to physically hand them over -- (lets put a call out for supporters in Europe??? can DreamWalkerAwake help with this?) all at the same time real-time somehow and with plenty of "colour" but peaceful... like a diplomatic mission...
or am I just dreamin too complicated? its possibly enough of a task just getting the basic letters done and encouraging others to write...
I need to get my head around the Bulls etc properly over the weekend. I'll also drag out the old Catholic Study Edition of the Bible and look for some useful quotes. I also need to drag out the exact wording of the Vatican 2 Primacy of Conscience doctrine from the net -- this doctrine I think holds a big red key, as it rules that in the event of a conflict between the word of the church and a persons own conscience, the peron is always right, and to do the word of the Church OVER your own conscience is actually a sin. I want to meditate on what this doctrine offers in the current context, because I feel it will be useful. it has certainly served me well. which is not something I can say for most doctrine I learned!
Much love to all (ohh my fingers are cold this morning!!! my typing is like clog dancing, instead of flamenco!)
Willow WalksInBeauty
dansingstars
May 19 2005, 01:01 AM
Hello everyone,
Wow, it is awesome when more people participate in seeking justice, empowerment and truth. I have read the postings and alot of ideas just popped up. For one, we will carry the names of the children who have not returned home, names of survivors who have passed on while waiting for their settlement to be resolved, etc....
We will have female survivors over 60+ leading the walk with the names and the rest will be carrying the other signs and flags. We will be carrying the 3 Australian flags, Percy with the Sweden flag and our flags of our nations.
The letters could be presented to UN?? as a violation of rights to the indigenious peoples. Is that too much? The idea is to have a strong voice for the indigenious peoples on an international level. I have read on the UN documents and other indigenious organizations are having a difficult time being heard, etc....
I know an apology has not benefited alot of the survivors and the rest of the First Nations, Metis, and Inuit peoples. I have hope it did some good for some and yes, I agree these people do not honour their words. Like our ancestors have long responded, "They speak with a forked tongue."
What do you suggest HPW? My brains are fried right now. It has been a busy busy week.
That's my little penny's worth. All my relations, dansingstars
Niawen
May 19 2005, 01:25 AM
Maybe we should try to appeal to everyone by getting famous First Natives involved in this. It may sound trite, however we all know alot if not most of the populations controlled by the fictions' watches their tvs alot. We can appeal to everyday people; as well as famous people that those who watch the tvs can identify with. The fictions' use tv and media to manipulate the population; is it bad if we can famous First Natives involved in the cause also? Naima, just one the Top Model tv show, she is mixed with Mexican Native, Black, White. If we can find different First Natives or those mixed who will want to identify with the cause; then hopefully more peoples can relate through them, if they need to relate to someone from the fictions' tvs'. Alot of people, especially youth watch tv, by provdiing them with people they can relate with from movies, shows, or music; maybe they can feel more comfortable with someone they are familiar with from the tv (even though the actress/actor is playing a role); they will be more able to talk about and rise up for First Nation issues. We wouldn't have to televise anything; the media would be there already. I hope this made sense.
ShiningHope
Niawen
from; http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-4GPm3...us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Please keep in mind that the ghostchild links for the most part do not work, unless they happen to come in on a search engine cache.
Prairy
=============
Popes Apology
« on: May 16, 2005, 12:06AM » by Nangala Warinapthi
National Indigenous Human Rights Congress Australia
Po Box 7116 Watson Canberra ACT Australia 2602
Mobile: 0423 964 131 Email: nihrca@yahoo.com.au
Press Release
15th May 2005
Alexander Marcel Andre Sebastian Barker Bailiff is the man who took sixty (60) days to get the Popes Apology to Oceania as the Papal Bull of 1445, that preceded the world being colonised, violated the Spiritual rights of the Peoples of Oceania.
As the Barkers, are criers of the court, from Onibury, Shropshire in England whom the Barkers list’ is named and the Bailiff’s are servers of judgements of the court, from Normandy in France, it is essential to ensure every person in every nation in the world, that has been colonised as a consequence of the Papal Bull of 1445 has their land returned, as it was taken as a proceed and process of crime, market rent is paid from where it was taken, all incomes from the moment it was taken is paid to original owners and all future earnings and compensation is paid.
The Popes Apology to Oceania “at the dawn of the new millennium” ensures as many court orders as there are people will be placed on all lands and assets of all christians and their churches, colonisers and colonies to seize all lands and assets to compensate all colonised Peoples under the proceeds of crime provisions. All Peoples, churches, colonisers and colonies still complying with the Papal Bulls of 1445 will have their actions cease by the United Nations validating United Nations Covenants in all member states of the United Nations and will also ensure the constitutions of all nations are invalidated as they are replaced with United Nations Covenants.
This is essential as the Treaty of Versailles and the Atlantic Charter ensure the Acts of Parliament of a Coloniser no longer apply. The Peoples of India and nations beside India are not the only People set free by Franklin Roosevelt. The United Nations will also ensure every person from every nation in the world can access the judiciary in their language as easily as they access their right to vote in their language. As the last Millennium failed to ensure every one in the world has water, food, shelter and health due to religion and democracy disempowering people, the next millennium will ensure everyone in the world has freedom to make common law in courts to ensure the welfare of the whole of humanity is better.
Contact: His Excellency
Francesco Canolini
Holy See
2 Vancouver Street
Red Hill
Canberra ACT 2603
Telephone: 61+262953876 Fax 61+262953690
Email: popesapology@yahoo.com.au
Lee Anne Nangala Daylight Lacey
Founder NIHRCA
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 11:07PM by Nangala Warinapthi »
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 07:36AM » by Yina Ywittikah
Popes Apology to Oceania
http://www.eniar.org/news/aeeo.txt
http://www.eniar.org/news/pope1.html
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2005, 04:29PM » by Ahniwanika
Excellent Yina, thanks for posting this (I couldn't find it anywhere).
I just got an email from Nangala, asking me to post something I said regarding all of this, as we discussed this quite a bit at ghostchild.com:
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1712
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1740
I'm not entirely sure what she wanted me to post, so I just chose the most powerful thing I said about all this:
Quote
Very powerful words HighPlainsWoman. You are completely right. We've discussed matters of apologies quite a bit here, goodvoicewoman and I both found a couple dozen apologies, from the Pope, the Queen, the Church, the gov of can, and several others.
The Pope's apology, was for the inquisition, and went like... "oh sorry for the inquisition old bean; sorry.... and the Queen apologized for 5 or six different matters all at once. And none of these apologies amounted to anything, in the same way that the recent document written by the man who visted the reservations here, concluding that as far as living standards go, canada, once in the top 10, is now 38th... the thing about that is, WE already knew we were in poverty! so the un asks the government of canada to manage the natives better...
Forgive the bitterness, I'm just not impressed with their effectiveness.
Though I will talk about this in great detail in my part 3 article I haven't started yet, is what all this comes down to... about dissolving all these documents, and there's lots. For starters:
Bull Caetera
The Bull Inter Caetera, March 13, 1456
Papal Bull Dum diversas, 1452 by Nicolas V
Sublimus Dei
The Bull Romanus Pontifex
Bull Aeterni Regis, June 21, 1481
The Bull, Eximiae devotionis, May 3, 1493?
The Bull, Dudum siquidem, September 26, 1493
The Treaty of Tordesillas, June 7, 1494
The Bull Ea Quae, January 24, 1506
The Bull Praecelsae Devotionis, November 3, 1514
.. In addition to all the claims that Columbus received which dictate that he owns all of "the Holy Land" (North and South America. They said it, not me) is that, because the world as it is cannot afford to start that particular cascade effect, in the end, it is up to us to dissolve them, for ourselves, and on our own terms.
As HighPlains said, these people don't get it. They are seperate from us. They are not the people. And what do the people say about these documents?
They say it is time to burn them. So how can we burn them? Do we need "those who are seperate from the people" to fullfill our needs? Do we need their support and will to do what the people have deemed necessary? Do we need them to officially dissolve what we already accept as being invalid?
In other words, it is by our own hands that we remove what does not serve us. It doesn't matter if the Pope is the Pope, he is still human, and has no power or authority over anyone. The same goes for all governments. They are afterall, just men.
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
If anyone's wondering what all those Papal Bulls are, and for related texts, you can find them here:
http://ghostchild.com/politics.htm
(and I just realized that page is kind of messed up, and must go fix it now...)
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 04:36AM » by Yina Ywittikah
Pope offers Aborigines an apology
From AFP
POPE John Paul II offered Australia's Aboriginal and other indigenous peoples of Oceania an apology for past "shameful injustices" of the Roman Catholic Church, in a message posted on the Internet.
The Pontiff wrote that the Church "apologised unreservedly" for the part played by its members "especially where children were forcibly separated from their families".
The apology came in a report by the special Synod on Oceania held in the Vatican in 1998, and follows a papal apology to China last month for the historic wrongs committed by its representatives in that country.
"Aware of the shameful injustices done to indigenous peoples in Oceania, the synod fathers apologised unreservedly for the part played in these by members of the Church, especially where children were forcibly separated from their families," said the document signed by the Pope.
Wrongs done to the indigenous peoples needed to be honestly acknowledged, whether the truth had been suppressed by governments, their agencies or Christian communities, the document said.
The document underlined that the identity and culture of Aboriginal people "are gravely threatened", and said the church would "support the cause of all indigenous peoples who seek a just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights."
It said it would support their aspirations for "a just solution to the complex question of the alienation of their lands".
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt...ies/s427370.htm
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 04:45AM by Yina Ywittikah »
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 05:20PM » by HighPlainsWoman
Well, Okay then.
Does anyone know what they mean by this statement?
Quote
the church would "support the cause of all indigenous peoples who seek a just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights."
I'm trying to figure out what is meant by "just and equitable recognition of their identity and their rights. "
HighPlainsWoman
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Re: Popes Apology
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2005, 09:22AM » by ohstonha
its about time. they are half the reason we got into this mess to begin with.
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married to a Mohawk Warrior
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Pope's Apology?????
GhostChild.com > Selective News
Pages: 1, 2
charlieb
May 16 2005, 03:59 AM
National Indigenous Human Rights Congress Australia
PO Box 7116 Watson Canberra ACT Australia 2602
Mobile: 0423 964 131 Email: nihrca@yahoo.com.au
Press Release
15th May 2005
The Man Who Evoked the Popes Apology in 60 Days.
file attached
Lee Anne Nagala Daylight Lacey
I got the above in an email. There was supposed to be a doc file attached, but, I can't get it to work.
WillowAliento
May 16 2005, 04:41 AM
Sister Nagala Dalight has posted the full text at sister site Jinta Jungu :
here's the link to the board there
http://jintajungu.ghostchild.com/index.php...rdseen.html#new
This is big stuff which might be yet another way to go forward -- I'd be interested to see what everyone thinks of it.
Slainte
Willow
Ahniwanika
May 16 2005, 05:28 PM
hmm? Well I'm not to sure what to make of this, so I'm going to email this person and get some more info...
Ahniwanika
SweetGrass
May 16 2005, 09:34 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmm................don't know about that letter, but
imagine.......
AN APOLOGY FROM THE POPE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S PART IN RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL ABUSE..........WOW............
Willow, dancingstars...........what a brilliant idea. Maybe Rome can be
added to our mailing list!
WillowAliento
May 17 2005, 01:21 AM
:--> Great idea Sweetgrass --
we should mail the new il papa and also Aust Archbishop George Pell is one of Ratzinger's Right-hand-blokes, so he should surely be spoken to... I'll get Pell's contact, can someone get one for Rome?
Willow
P.S -- meaningful apology idea: Imagine if the church handed all its land back to the People of the Tribes.... I'm dreamin' again.
dansingstars
May 17 2005, 08:03 AM
Hi Sweetgrass and Willow,
Is it possible? How? Who would be able to draft a letter to the Pope. It is a GREAT idea. Can we pull it through?
Can we add this to the list of objectives? I thought the previous Pope did an apology in the NorthWest Territories, correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, my memory cells are not what they used to be. Hey, that is a great idea, did he apologize to the other countries that suffered?
Let's toss some ideas around. Maybe Kanatiio can look at this and see what he thinks. Willow, did the previous Pope ever apologize to your nation? Having support from other clergies is also a good idea. What do you think?
My mind is swirling with ideas and more. I'll wait patiently for your replies. All my relations, dansingstars
WillowAliento
May 17 2005, 12:59 PM
Even if John paul 2 did make an apology in the nth west, if the whole of Canada & Quebec was not part of it, and nothing was done, it is well worth writing to new il papa I reckon... and same here, I think there might have been some kind of whiole of churches apology as part of all our early Sorry day and reconciliation movement -- but again, was there enough action? we need to bring Yina in on talking up this Island.
But yes, lets put it on the objectives -- and I am happy to help put together a draft once we've talked it up some more and got ideas together. the other one of course is Liz as head of the Anglican church, and Liz has made a formal apology to our Native people -- and also one year in her Xmas message got up our Prime Miniature for not doing the same thing-- hubby's and my jaws dropped -- she also refused to shake his hand at some state event... major snub... because he announced he would not say an officil sorry as PM.
But has Liz apologised to your mob, and has her aplogy to our mob been meaningful?
In our letter, do'y reckon we ask for an apology in the form of land free of taxes and state controls, including the mineral rights, and upstream catchment protection, for perpetuity, for the Native people rather than compensation money, or both?
there is much to "talk up" in this idea. but its a goodie.
I look forward to what others may have to say on this...
BTW here's another thought -- are there any sovereign nations where the Native people have control, which could be approached for letters of support via their embassies in Canada or their national government websites if they don't have diplomatic presence in your nation?? I'm thinking perhaps some of the African, Pacific islands and Caribbean nations, India and Asian nations, even Ireland might be worth approaching -- places where people can relate to struggling with colonialism especially.
A sovereign people (which Turtle Islanders are) has the right to ask other sovereign people's to support their cause -- after all, isn't that what the US Canada or Australia do? let me know your thoughts on this -- it worked for people in Sth Africa....is the govt policy in canada any less a form of apartheid?
This is all fermenting rather nicely innit???
Much love
Willow
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 06:04 PM
Well, I have the Pope's email address if I can find it, and let's not forget:
http://ghostchild.com/email_the_world.html
Also, does anyone know what Papal Bull is being referred to here?
It's not the Bull Inter Caetera is it?
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1093
charlieb
May 17 2005, 06:16 PM
Let's not kid ourselves here, an apology from the pope, significant as it may be, is still only the first step in a long process of addressing a legacy of evil. We all know decades of stalling on the issues is still in store.
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 06:16 PM
ok, here's a little more info for people:
(the bull mentioned above is Romanus pontifex
http://ghostchild.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1101
CHRONOLOGY OF THE PAPAL BULL'S MOVEMENT
*13th Century Crusades Era - King Alfonso X incorporates the Las siete partidas (seven division of laws) into Castilian law, one division explicitly referring to the granting of political and territorial jurisdiction to a monarch by "papal donation."
*January 8, 1455 - The papal bull Romanus Pontifex is issued by Pope Nicolas V to King Alfonso V of Portugal.
*May 4, 1493 - The papal bull Inter Caetera is issued by Pope Alexander VI to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain.
*September 26, 1493 - The papal bull Dudum Siquidem is issued by Pope Alexander VI. Confirms the bull Inter Caetera, and revokes (revocamus) all earlier papal grants to Portugal which might give her a claim to westward lands.
*November 1493 - Indigenous resistance to Inter Caetera begins. The indigenous peoples on the island of Quisqueya ("Hispaniola") valiantly resist the Spanish intrusion. The cacike (chieftain) Caonabo leads a retaliatory military campaign against the thirty-nine Christians left behind by Columbus at La Navidad after atrocities committed by them. All thirty-nine are found dead upon Columbus' return. Later, indigenous Caribbean peoples publically reject the "papal donation" stating the pope had no right to give what was not his to give.
*June 7, 1494 - Spain and Portugal sign Treaty of Tordesillas based on the bull Inter Caetera. The Treaty divides the world in half between the two nations, and is the foundation for subsequent treaties and custom relating to the Americas.
*June 2, 1537 - Pope Paul III issued the Papal Bull Sublimis Deus, which supposedly "freed the Indians," and is regarded as "the most important papal pronouncement on the human condition of the Indians" (Gutirrez, "Las Casas," 1993). However, as history unequivocally shows, Sublimis Deus is purely a theoretical act since there would be no need for an accounting of those declared to be "extinct," nor for the tens of millions who had been eliminated by the end of the 16th century.
*June 19, 1538 - Pope Paul III revoked Sublimis Deus at the urging of Spanish Emperor Charles V. However, there is controversy as to whether the Pope actually revoked Sublimis Deus or the brief Pastorale Officium of May 29, 1537. Revoked or not, it should be made clear that Sublimis Deus did not revoke Inter Caetera (Boyle, 1998, 1999).
*1542 - The "New Laws" that had prohibited Indian slavery and banned the encomienda (slavery system) were revoked.
*1823 - In the Johnson v. McIntosh case, U.S. Chief Justice John Marshall blatantly inserts language of "discovery" based on the bull Inter Caetera into the decision.
*1831 - In Cherokee v. Georgia, Justice Marshall rules that the Cherokee Nation was not a "foreign state" as defined in the U.S. Constitution, and therefore they could not sue the state of Georgia in the Supreme Court from usurping the gold on their land.
*1992 - A formal movement to revoke the bull Inter Caetera is initiated by the Indigenous Law Institute based in the United States.
*1993 - At the Parliament of the World's Religions in Chicago, Illinois, sixty indigenous delegates draft a Declaration of Vision calling for the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera.
*October 12, 1997 - An annual papal bulls burning commenced in Honolulu, Hawai'i calling international attention to the papal bulls issue.
*October 12, 1998 - Over 50 indigenous and human rights advocates gather in Honolulu to demand the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera, and called for it to be revoked by the year 2,000, or by the beginning of the "new millennium".
*November 28, 1998 - Pope John Paul II called "Christianity's 2,000 anniversary a year of mercy," as reported by AP, saying "the church will seek forgiveness," "atonement," and that he "wants the church to enter the third millennium with a clear conscience."
*February 19, 1999 - The United Church of Christ, Hawai'i Conference, passes a resolution which resolves that: "President Paul Sherry on behalf of the United Church of Christ urges and calls upon people of conscience in the Roman Catholic hierarchy and in other organized religions to persuade Pope John Paul II to revoke the Papal Bulls Dum Diversas of 1452 [Romanus Pontifex of 1455] and Inter Caetera of 1493 by the year 2,000."
*May 1999 - At the international Hague Appeal for Peace conference, Tony Castanha (Carib/Boricua) and Steve Newcomb (Shawnee/Lenape) directly address and call for the revocation of the bull Inter Caetera on both "Interfaith" and "Root Causes of War/Culture of Peace" panel presentations.
*October 2000 - Indigenous Peoples' Delegation (nine delegates) converge on Italy and the Vatican advocating for the revocation of Inter Caetera. Delegates meet with official from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.
*2001 - Pontifical Historical Commission studies the issue for the first time and rules that "Inter Caetera is no longer juridically valid." Kosmos Indigena founded. Continues to call on the Vatican to revoke Inter Caetera if it is no longer juridically valid.
*October 2003 - Seventh annual papal bulls burning observed in Honolulu, Hawai`i, as well as other locations around the world. Call is made to return to Rome in October 2005.
Read the webpage version of the "Appeal to the Vatican andPope John Paul II" at: http://www.uctp.org - Click on "Hawai`i."
from: http://www.turtle-tracks-for-kids.org/Edit...apal%20Bull.htm
Ahniwanika
May 17 2005, 09:15 PM
True CharlieB, in fact we may have to wait for another 500 years, 5000 years...
I think what's most important in anything to with this sort of thing is that people find hope, and common ground to work on something that does have relevance to what we all need to see happen, in creating a world worthy of our children.
Finding such common ground gives us practice towards living an inter-continental unity. That's exactly what the whole anti Iraq war movement has done.
So long as we know that, and that we don't have 10,000 years to resolve 10,000 issues (not considering the last 500 of which only a few matters of death and assimilation have sort of been resolved)... and in so doing opening ourselves to know and practice action that is relevant to and in mutual benefit of the whole, everything's going to be alright.
Ahniwanika
Moon
May 18 2005, 01:00 PM
Thank you for the link, I signed the Petition. Colonisation equals Enfrancisement, which equals slavery to Corporate Fiction, which equals livestock management..........The new Math does not get any easier to understand then that.
I think it is going to take alot pressure from all sources to move the new pope to remove this Jurisdictional Fraud. It is what gave direction to the WarriorKings to take instead of share, to molest the unworthy, and find as many unworthy to justify their need for cruelty.
It is my wish that this too be aired and dealt with in Peace, for any more bloodshead with not bring back the Millions of Sentients' around the world who sacrificed so the Coporate Machine of the Churches and the WarriorKings could feed on us so well.
Think now, where is this higher road? Where are the words of Correction and Understanding towards the Peace?
George Bush, do you see what we have been building? Tony Blair, do you see the end? To remove the blood lust and the abuse of authority is the goal, but how should we deal with you for no weapon's of mass distruction? How can you justify beyond the need to be in Iraq to oil the machine? You are killing our world with our addiction to your dependence on our need to move faster....by your Fiction Jurisdiction.
SweetGrass
May 18 2005, 01:44 PM
Maybe the Pope and the Queen should receive our package with a
formal letter.
Kanatiio is great at drafting up these letters and so is Willow. If we all
put our heads togeather.......
Thanks for the info Ahni.
They are often slow to reply and sometimes don't....but, at least they
will know we are still alive, not going away, are still taking a stand for
justice, and are forthright in attempting to correspond with them!!!!
Maybe I could mail them our folder with the poster and info of the
walk, dancingstars....
SweetGrass
May 18 2005, 02:45 PM
Here is just a few ideas.....I doubt that it will invoke an apology in 60 days, but you never know a "miracle" just might happen...
Ahni.....could you post a mailing address and an email address on here for the Pope and the Queen.
Kanatiio said writing the Pope would be fun...so, I take that as a "yes" for drafting up a letter for us!!!
Willow, you should do the same for your country and each of you could reference the other's country.
Moon a letter from you and Ka Nee Ka Neet would be cool...if you could get one from him.
Everyone else should write up a short letter stating why an apology is important to them and how their lives have been affected from the past and how this apology would make a difference for the future. Try to be personal, but like Moon said without blood.
I will copy them and send them with Kanatiio's letter. Willow could do the same.
The letters, if you are ok with it, should be posted here along with Kanatiio's and Willow's....so there is no denying they were sent!!!! They would all be cc to the gov't here, to other countries, church officials, media, etc. dancingstars and company could spread the word on her walk.
This is one more peaceful action....they all add up. A call for unity is working together...that always makes a difference with institutions.
SHALL WE?????
I will soon post the email address of the members of parliament that I am lobbying for dancingstars walk under Victory Walk for Justice. If all of you could email letters of support, it will make a big difference for the outcome of this walk. Officials and media in other countries are interested and taking notice.......our government and media seem to only take notice under pressure..........surprise...surpise...right. The more emails they get...the better........
mikwhec nia:wen thanks
SweetGrass
HighPlainsWoman
May 18 2005, 03:26 PM
My personal opinion is that an apology is not enough from the fiction governments leaders.
An apology is a start. However, what good is an apology if the problems are not corrected? They can not correct the past, but they can make certain these kinds of misbehaviors , atrocities and genocides do not continue on into the future.
I don't think these leaders "get it." They live a life far removed from the common peoples. Unless the problems are addressed and corrected by The Pope and the Holy Roman Empire, The British Queen and parliament, U.S.A. President Bush and the Senate, then any previous apology is a lie.
Until the people mentioned above, live with the people, and suffer what the people suffer....suffer what horrors the people have to suffer...day in and day out just to survive, I don't know if they will "get it." The blood of innocents is on their hands.
HighPlainsWoman
Niawen
May 18 2005, 07:09 PM
Hopefully the attention (media or otherwise) brought to the truth and cause will get people to understand and see. We may not see the fictions' apologizing for it; however it would be a good oportunity to educate people who do not know, since most are victims of organized religion mafias.
ShiningHope
Niawen
Ahniwanika
May 18 2005, 08:32 PM
OK, here's a few email addresses:
the Pope
benedictxvi@vatican.va
The Queen
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page3776.asp
Privy Council of UK
pcosecretariat@pco.x.gsi.gov.uk
judicial.committee@pco.x.gsi.gov.uk
Privy Council of CA
info@pco-bcp.gc.ca
Should also coordinate with/contact:
National Catholic Reporter
ncr_editor@natcath.com
For support, involvement:
Kevin Annett
kevinannett@yahoo.ca
Campaign against the Inter Caetera
castanha@hawaii.edu
http://bullsburning.itgo.com/Index.htm
Roberto Mucaro Borrero, President
United Confederation of Taino People
PO Box 4515
New York, NY 10163
Tel: (212)604-4186
Email: uctp_ny@hotmail.com
Noam Chomsky
chomsky@mit.edu
and as mentioned already: http://ghostchild.com/email_the_world.html
* the top of the international government emails page, are many world leaders
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Very powerful words HighPlainsWoman. You are completely right. We've discussed matters of apologies quite a bit here, goodvoicewoman and I both found a couple dozen apologies, from the Pope, the Queen, the Church, the gov of can, and several others.
The Pope's apology, was for the inquisition, and went like... "oh sorry for the inquisition old bean; sorry.... and the Queen apoligized for 5 or six different matters all at once. And none of these apologies amounted to anything, in the same way that the recent document written by the man who visted the reservations here, concluding that as far as living standards go, canada, once in the top 10, is now 38th... the thing about that is, WE already knew we were in poverty! so the un asks the government of canada to manage the natives better...
Forgive the bitterness, I'm just not impressed with their effectiveness.
Though I will talk about this in great detail in my part 3 article I haven't started yet, is what all this comes down to... about dissolving all these documents, and there's lots. For starters:
Bull Inter Caetera
The Bull Inter Caetera, March 13, 1456
Papal Bull Dum diversas, 1452 by Nicolas V
Sublimus Dei
The Bull Romanus Pontifex
Bull Aeterni Regis, June 21, 1481
The Bull, Eximiae devotionis, May 3, 1493?
The Bull, Dudum siquidem, September 26, 1493
The Treaty of Tordesillas, June 7, 1494
The Bull Ea Quae, January 24, 1506
The Bull Praecelsae Devotionis, November 3, 1514
.. In addition to all the claims that Columbus received which dictate that he owns all of "the Holy Land" (North and South America. They said it, not me)
is that, because the world as it is cannot afford to start that particular cascade effect, in the end, it is up to us to dissolve them, for ourselves, and on our own terms.
As HighPlains said, these people don't get it. They are seperate from us. They are not the people. And what do the people say about these documents?
They say it is time to burn them. So how can we burn them? Do we need "those who are seperate from the people" to fullfill our needs? Do we need their support and will to do what the people have deemed necessary? Do we need them to officially dissolve what we already accept as being invalid?
In other words, it is by our own hands that we remove what does not serve us. It doesn't matter if the Pope is the Pope, he is still human, and has no power or authority over anyone. The same goes for all governments. They are afterall, just men.
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
WillowAliento
May 18 2005, 11:41 PM
QUOTE (Ahniwanika @ May 18 2005, 08:32 PM)
It is infinitely more important, that those responsible take actions that represent apology, rather than just talking apology. There's lots of ways to do that, I'd be more than happy to talk about every option I could possibly conceive.
But an apology, or "better actions" is about them, not us. Our role, if not reminding them to their jobs as men that control us, run our world, and determine who can and cannot live, know freedom, peace, and abundance, based on laws and doctrines they wrote... is for us to set the example for them and everyone else.
Even if they took responsiblity, we are still the ones that must set "the standards of Human Being" because the poeple have always been the ones that have made the necessary changes in the societies we exist in. It has never been the Church, or any modern government. It never will be, until the people are the government, and the nature of Church Institutions are seen and accepted for what they are.
Tjurrara Ahniwanika
I do believe Ahniwanika has here given us a good core to consider for our letters -- put his finger on exactly what needs to change -- the Church etc need to come into alignment with Good Ways of Being Human, and also make practical amends for the mistakes they have made and the effects of their various false rulings.
This is a great idea to get people thinking and active across our islands -- a starting place after which lots of things become possible -- for one thing we encourage people to view these "Leaders" as just people -- really no more wise than themselves -- and that puts an end to somes unquestioning obedience which becomes collusion.
I'll talk to a few folk here abt the shape of a draft, and it would be good to get as much input from the wise folk here as possible too -- the idea of everything being posted here is also a good one.
Are we going to send the letters both electronically and also snail-mail? (thankyou Ahni for all those addresses!)
another idea -- The Snail mail ones could be physically delivered in a colourful NVA fashion to the reps of the Queen and Pope etc in our respective "nations" -- the Gov generals and the Archbishop (ours pell is of course in Rome but he still has an office here) then the media gets the message straight away that these letters have been delivered, if we actually timed it so it was simultaneous is all the "nations" involved that would be really powerful and bigger media (which reaches Mr Average and Mrs Apathetic).
In the USA the nearest thing to a Queens rep would be the British Embassy I guess.
If we could get a small group in Britain to also hand deliver to the palace and wow -- send someone to Italy to physically hand them over -- (lets put a call out for supporters in Europe??? can DreamWalkerAwake help with this?) all at the same time real-time somehow and with plenty of "colour" but peaceful... like a diplomatic mission...
or am I just dreamin too complicated? its possibly enough of a task just getting the basic letters done and encouraging others to write...
I need to get my head around the Bulls etc properly over the weekend. I'll also drag out the old Catholic Study Edition of the Bible and look for some useful quotes. I also need to drag out the exact wording of the Vatican 2 Primacy of Conscience doctrine from the net -- this doctrine I think holds a big red key, as it rules that in the event of a conflict between the word of the church and a persons own conscience, the peron is always right, and to do the word of the Church OVER your own conscience is actually a sin. I want to meditate on what this doctrine offers in the current context, because I feel it will be useful. it has certainly served me well. which is not something I can say for most doctrine I learned!
Much love to all (ohh my fingers are cold this morning!!! my typing is like clog dancing, instead of flamenco!)
Willow WalksInBeauty
dansingstars
May 19 2005, 01:01 AM
Hello everyone,
Wow, it is awesome when more people participate in seeking justice, empowerment and truth. I have read the postings and alot of ideas just popped up. For one, we will carry the names of the children who have not returned home, names of survivors who have passed on while waiting for their settlement to be resolved, etc....
We will have female survivors over 60+ leading the walk with the names and the rest will be carrying the other signs and flags. We will be carrying the 3 Australian flags, Percy with the Sweden flag and our flags of our nations.
The letters could be presented to UN?? as a violation of rights to the indigenious peoples. Is that too much? The idea is to have a strong voice for the indigenious peoples on an international level. I have read on the UN documents and other indigenious organizations are having a difficult time being heard, etc....
I know an apology has not benefited alot of the survivors and the rest of the First Nations, Metis, and Inuit peoples. I have hope it did some good for some and yes, I agree these people do not honour their words. Like our ancestors have long responded, "They speak with a forked tongue."
What do you suggest HPW? My brains are fried right now. It has been a busy busy week.
That's my little penny's worth. All my relations, dansingstars
Niawen
May 19 2005, 01:25 AM
Maybe we should try to appeal to everyone by getting famous First Natives involved in this. It may sound trite, however we all know alot if not most of the populations controlled by the fictions' watches their tvs alot. We can appeal to everyday people; as well as famous people that those who watch the tvs can identify with. The fictions' use tv and media to manipulate the population; is it bad if we can famous First Natives involved in the cause also? Naima, just one the Top Model tv show, she is mixed with Mexican Native, Black, White. If we can find different First Natives or those mixed who will want to identify with the cause; then hopefully more peoples can relate through them, if they need to relate to someone from the fictions' tvs'. Alot of people, especially youth watch tv, by provdiing them with people they can relate with from movies, shows, or music; maybe they can feel more comfortable with someone they are familiar with from the tv (even though the actress/actor is playing a role); they will be more able to talk about and rise up for First Nation issues. We wouldn't have to televise anything; the media would be there already. I hope this made sense.
ShiningHope
Niawen
from; http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:-4GPm3...us&ct=clnk&cd=1